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Der Ludwigshafener Traditionsverein ist mit Wieschalla Aktuelle Meldung zu Corona Aktuelle Fallzahlen 2.
Schwerpunktkontrollen bei Frisörbetrieben 1. The way it moves from group to group makes it more of an earthquake that overthrows any morality other than my side versus yours.
Authority or respect fails to note the occasional inevitable opposition between tradition as perceived by smaller groups and the prevailing notion of legitimate authority.
The assassination of abortion doctors is a nicely melodramatic example. And the real animus against liberalism is its violation of human nature.
Tim Scanlon! I have read many of your papers and I am truly honored to meet you in my very own comment box. Thanks for the link. My own Durkheim scholarship consists of having read quite a bit in college and being rather lastingly impressed by it.
But my understanding was — in the way of the undergraduate mind — somewhat unsophisticated, probably. A variety of radical groups Communists, Nazis, religious fundamentalists are interested only in the overwhelming preponderance of their ideas in all spheres of life instead of being placated by some sort of mealy-mouthed representationalism, except insofar as representation advances their cause to complete superiority.
Some counterexamples exist of course IRA comes to mind , but even in these cases, representation was often considered to be inadequate by the more radical members of these groups and the scope of their ideology was usually more focused on political recognition anyway.
Dave Maier Latin pedant alert! How do we rationalize an irrational world beyond facing its irrationality? Is that abandoning rationality, or do we accept the possibility of a rationality that escapes us?
PatinIowa This is all very odd to someone who thinks of himself as well to the left on economics and far less authoritarian than his colleagues at a state flagship university.
Why would we be importing more and more radical right wingers, when there are so many more positions vacant?
Dwight Cramer But we were young and, well not really stupid but pretty ignorant. And that was an awfully long time ago.
John Quiggin An unstated premise in most of this stuff is that viewpoints strongly represented in the current distribution of opinion in the US have some kind of normative status, whereas others do not.
In reading your posts it really got me to thinking about what the pillars are. As Haidt himself points out, fairness is one of the first principles we see emerge in children: They are keen to point out when they sense that someone is getting more than they!
Which is sort of the problem. We use proxies to guide us: cultural norms, guidelines, laws, stories, etc. Having authority guide our decisions is to use the experience of our immediate elders to inform our decisions.
Sanctity is to incorporate the thinking of generations of people who preceded us. Things become sacred teachings, wisdom, ways to act only because they represent the collective response of some human culture — nothing is sacred unto itself before a human culture acts upon it!
As a side, he has shown that self-styled liberals are more often than not to actually moralize liberally, and self-styled conservatives will more often than not moralize conservatively.
At least we know ourselves! But Haidt goes off the rails right about there. He has uncovered and categorized something potentially useful, and then he makes the claim unstated that Conservative Moral Reasoning is superior to Liberal Moral Reasoning, and Conservative Values Build Better Societies.
But, of course, they no longer server the function of ensuring lack of harm or cheating, they actually codify harm and injustice for the benefit of a few.
Which makes sense; if I can get a little more than everyone else and not get noticed keep my head! The other people are the Radicals or Iconoclasts.
The university is a good place for them as they should be put in charge only in extremis. But here we are. Ben Alpers Thanks for the Boy and Richardon reference, Yankee: the idea that one needs a mix of innovation and conservatism in this sense is a pretty standard one and is typically rolled out in these contexts.
Yet another source of ambiguity. Chris S This is connected to his claim that liberals are unable to simulate Conservative Moral reasoning to the extent that conservatives can simulates Liberal Moral reasoning, and that therefore the spectrum of Conservative Values is wider — but of course, on which point see the first post.
One of the most jarring point, because his simultaneous assertions that 1 the telos of universities is truth and 2 external pressure with no reference to truth whatsoever should be exercised on universities to modify the composition of the teaching body remains the uncontested champion.
On the main topic of the post, I am fully with Phil 7. Yep, pretty much the reverse of the meaning Haidt attributes to the term. Perhaps it is time to pass to something else or not, I enjoy shooting fishes in barrels quite a good deal.
Only a minority tick all the boxes indicated as important by their self-appointed intellectual represntatives characters like Rod Dreher, mostly , but it would be good to be aware of the best versions of their positions, as part of negotiating with them over legislation.
To restate from a previous thread, liberals attempting to simulate conservative moral reasoning produced a bunch of hypocritical racists who would eagerly vote for someone like Trump — not at all the serious moralists Haidt found the Republican base to be.
Pretendous Why not expect some unit of actions e. It is unclear why universities need conservative ideologues as professors.
The curriculum is going to provide as much tradition as any sane person could want. Patrick Imagine having a conversation with someone who keeps insisting to you that thousands of years of human history went into developing and perfecting the horse and buggy as a means of travel and transport, and we throw it away at our peril.
And so you keep asking the obvious questions. A train can transport thousands of tons of coal. A plane can get you across the country in hours.
A highway system can deliver goods to a thousand grocery stores in a thousand cities without them spoiling in transit. You later find out that somehow the buggy guy got hired to run a trucking company, and immediately shifted to an all buggy system and prohibited his employees from discussing supermarkets.
So conservative norms are good at helping us with free riding and we reject them at our peril? Will conservative norms help us prevent overfishing a shared ocean?
No, the opposite. Will they help us avoid polluting a shared environment? Will conservative norms preserve traditions of decorum and fair play in politics?
The idea is almost comical, by modern Trump standards the GOOD conservatives are the ones who threatened to force a national debt default in order to extract unrelated policy concessions!
Will conservative norms at least stop people from grabbing power by continuously lying about easily verified factual matters to an audience they know to be too trusting to check?
Not even close. So apparently, arguing purely from pragmatism and observable reality, whatever merits conservatism may have as a social ideology, its failing to address some pretty major modern social concerns, and its defenders are levying it to actively seek to make those problems worse.
If this is the case, it means that conservative ideas will always have representation in the fabric of society, since biases and fallacies pop up unbidden like virtual particles in the depths of space.
It also means that it is counter-productive to give those ideas at least as they are currently defined formal representation within intellectual establishments.
The counter-counter-argument is: where the hell is it now, at its hour of greatest need? These stalwart traditionalists should be screaming at the top of their lungs about the degradation of the office of the President and the loss of American prestige on the world stage, as well as the alienation of large swathes of society.
Kiwanda So what does Haidt actually say? His views, at least as discussed on his slides , are that: Universities could be should be about the pursuit of truth; Pursuit of social justice or any other purpose, e.
Wheaton for religion. But still. Sebastian H Yes, at some level of abstraction, the impulse to PC-culturism could be defined as a form of conservatism you try to shut people up if they disagree with you in order to preserve the power of your own views to go unquestioned.
But that seems like a philosophical toy game rather than a useful way of looking at things Look I can define anything as anything else if I am permitted to take it to arbitrary levels of abstraction.
In actual fact, as currently practiced in the university, PC culture is being used to empower the more left side of the political spectrum by attempting to suppress the right side.
So you seem to be saying that PC-ism sort of comes from a more conservative [temperamental] impulse if you look at just right, but then you forge forward as if that said anything useful about having people around from both sides of the political debate.
It seems underappreciated that when you exclude, you tend to radicalize. When you include, you tend to domesticate.
But in general it is a concept with explanatory force. It ties yet again with all of the recent tribalism discussions around here.
I can already forsee the direction that my argument will be nit-picked [lets talk about hypotheticals, lets talk about edge cases]. Edge cases are of infinite amusement to philosophers, but they tend to obscure agreement on the core cases.
AcademicLurker How does he make that decision? Off the cuff? Will they be educating our average Joe? Whispering in his ear, all the time?
Will you be among that caste? Off the main topic, but I have some memory that Matt Yglesias was propelled from obscure blogger to famous ish journalist by having Tim Scanlon respond to his post about Harvard photocopying rules.
Faustusnotes Looks like comservatives like to choose their speakers according to the content of their speech too, like liberal snowflakes.
Do you think CPACZ should be obliged to offer him a platform for paedophilia advocacy of is that only something liberal professors should be obliged to do?
Where do you think haidt stands on the Ned for paedophilia advocacy in the broad intellectual base of academia? Cranky Observer I invite you to wear it to any public gathering in a suburban or exurban area of any red it purple state.
I believe the results would be instructive for your analysis of inclusiveness. Abolitionism and arranged things so that rural minorities could control events.
State constitutions written after followed suit. Particularly those who oppose neo white supremacy. Funny how that worked out. That certainly implies that the racist version of populism is an important object of social science study.
Again the comparison Islamist theocracy is relevant. We obviously need to understand this better, but not by appointing lots of theocrats. This assumes the conclusion that the conservatives you are keeping out of the university are beholden to racist populism instead of the idea that you might discover something else if you knew them.
Nor does it deal with the problem of radicalization by exclusion instead of co-opting by including. I think this is basically correct. But you need some logically-unfounded master value, yes?
If Haidt had made an argument for utilitarianism, it would have to be on the basis of some more fundamental moral principles which themselves have no logical foundation.
Yet in practice these groups serve useful functions because left alone or perhaps jointly with some on the left less committed to liberalism liberals will get a lot wrong aside from our most fundamental values.
Social science is in a replication crisis. We need ideological diversity in universities not to question some version of Millian liberalism, or utilitarianism, or the use of logic and evidence in argument—these can all be accepted on faith—but to demand more rigor and offer contrary points of view on the higher-level stuff that most social scientists are researching, which is probably mostly wrong because empiricism is hard.
The fact that investigations are distressing for the people being investigated is, by itself, insufficient justification for the conclusion that the investigations should not be conducted.
As it happens, for me this is not a purely hypothetical or academic point. Haidt wants to run these things together. I want to keep them separate.
How about Liberalism has a high probability of being mostly right, but paradoxically, the way it plays out in universities generates a temperament which compounds on the areas where it might be wrong and which undermines its functioning in wider communities.
Liberalism need to constantly challenge itself with outside ideas and co-opt them lest it become moldy and self-absorbed, eventually slipping into illiberalism by becoming too detached from the rest of reality.
I would agree with you, if conservative thought covered the whole range of human history and experience. Instead, it covers a narrow range of cherry-picked, white, male and largely Christian ideas almost exclusively from the West i.
Most conservative ideas are actually fairly new and almost completely historically untested see Globalism, Free Trade, deregulated Capitalism.
For hundreds of years prior to that, Europeans accepted that men were emotional beings and could have sex with other men so long as they fulfilled social duties related to land inheritance i.
Modern conservatism is a narrow and almost completely unrelatable representation of historical experience. Oh Kiwanda, where is your staunch defense of free speech now?
Surely CPAC should be obliged to allow this man to hold forth at great and annoying length about how paedophilia is cool? Are you suggesting they censor him for the content of his speech!?
Any advocate of increasing right wing influence on campus has the strongest case when arguing for token inclusion among research programs within the social sciences.
Yet, advocates for a right turn in Academy focus not on research but pc correctness from the profs: that is, campus culture among the students as influenced by the profs.
In summary: they got nothin. Noticing, enforcing, and transgressing taboos provide opportunities for issues of group definition and status to be worked out.
The argument gains plausibility from several overlays of different senses in which it might be right.
But I hope to find the time to tease apart all those overlays to show that, although some of them might be good — and at least a few are certainly worth something!
And some of the good ones are inconsistent with some of the others. What is the likelihood that universities would be healthier places with more conservatives, given the facts about how few conservatives are currently professors?
What is the likelihood that the ideal political system is a kind of eternal battle between Two Great Parties — of Change and Not-Change — given such-and-such facts about human psychology?
But I think it makes a big difference which argument you buy. John, I guess one of my problems with your approach thus far is that you seem to be addressing all the ambiguities in the most ambiguous way possible instead of trying to solidify any of them.
I would say both temperaments need to be listened to for a society to be healthy. This is a bad formulation. I would say that the university should be no more than one standard deviation or so off the society as a whole or it risks dangerously losing touch.
Now it may be that there is some ideal mix in the society as a whole, but I think that is a different argument.
His views, at least as discussed on his slides, are that: Universities could be should be about the pursuit of truth;.
Yes, and the way they organized to achieve this goal has been to recruit researchers in autonomy, by peers and based on scholarship.
This is not a perfect system a all absent a strong norm against local hiring, it can quickly devolves into nepotism and it is slightly too sensitive to academic fads, for instance but in the last years, it proved vastly superior to every other alternative.
Pursuit of social justice or any other purpose, e. Lack of anybody to argue against leads to strongly held but weakly supported views: open argument serves scholarship;.
Maybe the argument has some plausibility, but it is by no means obvious; after all, real scholarship is characterized both by a strong bias towards inclusivity in theory-any idea may be considered-but an equally strong bias towards exclusion in practice-any idea that has been shown to be wrong is abandoned , but even taking it for granted, you know what serves scholarship a good deal more: independently evaluating scholars based on their scholarship, not on whether they wear socks or not.
That seems somewhat plausible to me. For that reason, I tend to not take very seriously the complaint of sock-wearing academics that feel excluded from academia.
They should man up, publish outstanding papers and thereby prove that one can succeed in academia while wearing socks.
If the goal of Universities is to find truths, then how researchers self-identify within the American political system and all its peculiarities, or their clothing habits, or their familial background should have precisely zero impact on how they are hired and promoted.
So in a truly remarkable piece of free speech absolutism, universities are obliged to allow people like Milo to come onto campus to harass their own students indeed, universities are required to tolerate people with views like Milo in order to furnish a haidt-style broad church of intellectual endeavour but the conservative movement is not obliged to allow people like Milo to come into their halls and harass their own members with views that they find confronting; no haidt-style broad church of intellectual ideals for conservatives — that only applies to liberals.
Because of the first amendment, right? My experience of academia both in the scientific field and in the more literary field in which I have experience is that there is a very strong premium given to refutations: if you can manage to show that something somewhat widely believed is wrong, you get a good publication.
I think this is certainly true descriptively and a very worrying prospect, but inclusion is the business of the civil society and of the political system, not of the research component of universities, whose business is producing scholarship.
The way I see it, the American political right is a political construction a shocking opinion, I know so it has many interesting things to say in terms of policies for some value of interesting and far from being shunned, the whole world listens carefully to them with growing terror.
However, and without contradiction, it might very well be that very few people identifying with it politically produce scholarly work good enough to warrant a scholarly career.
Two different things, you see. Elle ne fait rien au royaume des savants. An unlikely pair in many respects for French politics.
The clever boys in tweed jackets, who read Burke and Oakeshott and Weaver and Voegelin and other fancy names that are as remote from most Tory or Republican voters as Deleuze or Lacan?
Or do we want the sons and daughters of those actual voters? We already have ample evidence for that conclusion, most recently the fact that they voted for Trump, which was the reason you gave for taking them seriously.
To rephrase the claim that was the smart idea before the election, I take Trump and his supporters seriously, but not respectfully.
Scott P. Most of the time there is no way of knowing their political affiliation. There might be a narrow sliver of disciplines where it could be inferred from their scholarly or creative work, but that is fairly unusual.
So there is no legal way of hiring more conservative faculty even if we wanted to. It is true that occasionally a candidate will stray into a political topic.
Which is exactly the kind of argument that conservatives tend to reject. It is indeed some sort of affirmative action program.
Conservatives may tend to reject this kind of argument, but most of the Heterodox Academy types are not actually conservatives.
At the moment, restricting participation in the production of scholarship is achieved based on the quality of past scholarship. This has the statistical consequence that participation is in practice restricted to members of specific social groups non-socks wearing mathematicians, linguists from Iceland, upper middle-class background everywhere and, yes, that is not very healthy.
If it is offered with the stated intent to increase the quality of the scholarship, it sounds self-contradictory. If it is offered for a specific social characteristic but not for equally plausible other ones, it sounds hypocritical.
DKos Iowa legislature introduces bill to require university faculty applicants to state party affiliation Feb 20 Are you sure there are not at least some secondary criteria you would support for hiring, ceterus paribus, one scholar over another?
Congratulations, faustusnotes! Great job! And actually, well, yes, at least in the U. Protections for speech are legally required of public universities, and free inquiry is a value that at least some of us would like to see at all universities.
Partisan political organizations are a different thing. Not true where you are? Conservative ideas which were presumably limited to the ones being articulated by the set of people who were not listened to by academia.
Because it sounds somewhat like magical thinking to me as well as ignoring the Conservative consensus on economics , and additionally throws the concept of personal moral agency which conservatives are big on out of the window.
There are 21 who came after , 18 after All but 1 of the 14 in the sciences comes from Europe 1 from NA. ALL are dead white males come to mention it, all 30 were male.
From the Robert Putnam experience what they seem to have learned is how to hide the unfortunate results. Have they learned any lessons from the failed yr attempt to eliminate the 1SD difference in black and white educational test scores?
Have we reached a point, like Lake Wobegon, where everyone is above average? These two experiments cost billions perhaps trillions and untold misery and what lessons have been learned?
I submit, none. The madness continues, unabated. The Buggery Act of in England, prescribed the death penalty for sodomy.
Given those unfortunate facts, I would dispute that statement. William Berry Chip Daniels For instance, as was pointed out, the massive support for Trump among self-described Christians and secular conservatives demonstrates that the political movement called conservative is anything but.
They are in fact, radical reactionaries, revanchists dedicated to a restoration of a white ethnotribalism. Meanwhile, the profile of liberalism seems wildly at variance with my observations in the wild.
Or that they value self-expression to excess, while demanding that gay people be admitted to the role of monogamous marriage and become teachers and Scout leaders.
Science deniers? This seems reasonable to me. It is normal for someone who has the required intelligence to assess the seriousness of global warming or any other highly topical and politically charged subject and make as informed a decision as possible.
Its what I did in reaching a similar conclusion. Rather than using their intelligence to make a well-informed judgement John would have us instead believe that this intelligence has resulted in them contracting some sort of knuckle-dragging science denialism, as a result of which he would ban them from holding a job in academia.
Does haidt bother to look at the downsides of lowering academic standards to let people like Lott into the academy? Whether they then consider AGW to be serious depends on whether they care what happens to future generations.
Who could have seen that coming? J-D, admit it. Faustus, sill seething from that Wegman thing I see. Pity about that great graphic. Way to virtue signal there, JimV.
And funny you should mention statistical math, when your lot, starting with Mr.